"Pat" <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:54roejF21eeotU1@mid.individual.net...
> Had the satellite man over today. He said I may have a faulty box (Fortec
> Star Beta)
> I can get hotbird and astra 1, no problem. Cannot get turksat or arabsat
> he said I couldnt in the UK. BUT and here is the thing. I store the
> satellites and can flick from one to another OK, but when I search for
> another satellite and go back to hotbird or astra which are stored, it
> wont find them and says no signal, like the dish isnt moving.
>
> Are there any easier boxes to use, Oh and by the way, the dish is up near
> the guttering of the house, when the dish moves it has free range one way
> not not the other as it pushes against the guttering. I pointed this out
> twice and he said its not a problem. Its having a good swing dont get me
> wrong but if I go west to far it hits the guttering and wont go further.
>
> HELP ! Please
>
Thanks for the help Bill.

I do have USALS BUT is what you have said dependent on wether or not the
dish and motor has been set up correctly?
I can find several satellites manually but not using USALS. I just wonder if
he has put the dish up correctly.

"Bill (Adopt)" <adopt@billsimpson.com> wrote in message
news:4ebe90b0cdadopt@billsimpson.com...
> In article <550lvqF1rqjkuU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Pat <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi Pat.. )
>
> Just got back.. will attempt to answer this first
> - anything later might just be my nose bouncing off
> the keyboard in time to the snores! )
>
>> My coordinates are
>
>> Lat:
>> 53:52:13N (53.8703)
>> Lon:
>> 3:02:22W (-3.0393)
>> Which bits do I enter in when using USALS. The fists number or the ones
>> in
>> brackets. It only alows me to enter a few digits
>
>
> I think, not knowing which box you now have, that
> the digits you will need to enter will be the ones
> in your brackets..
>
> So that will be 53.87N (or 53.8N or 53.9N if you
> can only enter to one decimal place.
>
> The westerly one is similarly entered as either
> 3.04W or perhaps -3.0....
>
> The minus is important as that denotes a westerly
> direction of longitude. East is positive (+) and
> west is negative (-)...
>
> I'm at a +0.9 longitude - or at least the outside
> of the kitchen wall, where the dish is mounted,
> happens to be.. )
>
>
> I might be answering your immediately prior article
> here, but there is another thing that you can check...
>
>
> Make sure that your box is not switched into
> DiSEqC 1.2 as it's main positioner.
>
> This means you are attempting to use the onboard
> D-igital S-atellite E-quipment C-ontroller to move
> your dish - and this can only be done after a lot
> of work with calculators, declination and inclination
> angles, testing the wind and a few magical words, for
> each and every satellite you might wish to receive.
>
> DiSEqC is a viable if now somewhat old-fashioned
> method of doing it in these enlightened days. I'm
> not sure I would even know how - although I'm told
> that a large wad of chewing-gum (or blu-tack) and
> a long length of string is an advantage -as is a
> rich 'French' vocabulary ..oh.. and a degree in
> mathematics... ;'))
>
> So, make sure that your box is actually switched into
> it's USALS menu ..ie that any 'positioner messages'
> will come up as "USALS" or somesuch, /not/ as "1.2"
>
> This tells your box that it is now in control of the
> dish - not the motor! It will tell the motor where
> to go ..usually to within 1/10th of a degree if it's
> the Metronics dish wobbler..
>
> I don't know which box you have ..but the menus
> should make this USALS section fairly clear. You
> may need to both select USALS - and to confirm that
> selection before the box sets itself into the USALS
> mode. Once in USALS it shouldn't ever drop out
> again, even when switched off totally and restarted
> from a 'boot' - unless you wish it to...
>
> It might be that ensuring that you are in USALS is
> all you need to do - apart from finding which satellite
> is placed where in the heavens above you.. )
>
> You will have to program each satellite into the box
> by putting in and storing it's position - although
> you may find that your own reference latitude and
> longitude, having been put in once, will not need
> to be entered again. These may appear automatically,
> each time you start up and enter a 'new' satellite..
>
> Anyway, once you have stored that satellite position,
> then try asking the box to find the 'new' satellite
> and to load up the channels - just as you have done
> for both the Hotbirds and Astras...
>
> Now ..if this makes sense ..let's see what happens!
>
> Hopefully you'll find yourself making plenty of coffee
> and munching lots of biccies whilst all the channels
> are pouring in )
>
> hh... )
>
> Bill ZFC...
>
> --
> Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
> Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
I called Fortec Star in the Uk for technical suport they couldnt offer any
and said I shold try maplins where i got it from. I called maplins tech supp
hotline and they said "I havent a clue about satellites you have to move the
dish yourself manually"
I then went on to tell him I had entered my settings L&L and it still wont
find anything and I cannot switch from one sat to another He then said the
box was faulty.#

GGGrrrrr

"TriJan" <trijan@trijan.com> wrote in message
news:45ea9691$1_2@x-privat.org...
> Pat wrote:
>> Had the satellite man over today. He said I may have a faulty box (Fortec
>> Star Beta)
>> I can get hotbird and astra 1, no problem. Cannot get turksat or arabsat
>> he said I couldnt in the UK. BUT and here is the thing. I store the
>> satellites and can flick from one to another OK, but when I search for
>> another satellite and go back to hotbird or astra which are stored, it
>> wont find them and says no signal, like the dish isnt moving.
>>
>> Are there any easier boxes to use, Oh and by the way, the dish is up near
>> the guttering of the house, when the dish moves it has free range one way
>> not not the other as it pushes against the guttering. I pointed this out
>> twice and he said its not a problem. Its having a good swing dont get me
>> wrong but if I go west to far it hits the guttering and wont go further.
>>
>> HELP ! Please
>
> Your satellite man is a prick, total cowboy.
>
> Trij
Well I may go down this route now as I canot seem to set this motor up.
How easy are they to install. If I want for instance 10 satellites,
obviously all the LNB's will be pointing in different directions? How
difficult is it to set up

In article <5525pmF231aobU1@mid.individual.net>,
Pat <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote:

[..]
> I do have USALS BUT is what you have said dependent on wether or not the
> dish and motor has been set up correctly?

Yes, it is in any setup.. Although (further below) it might
not be as hard as many imagine it to be - especially with
USALS to do the hard calculations for you.. )

> I can find several satellites manually but not using USALS. I just wonder if
> he has put the dish up correctly.

I can't answer that directly - if only because I don't know
how your installer set it all up. I get the impression not
too well - but that might be doing him an injustice. He
should, of course, be prepared to come back to you and correct
any initial misalignement - but that isn't going to help if
he doesn't know what he's doing in the first place. Mounting
a motor is not quite the same as hanging on to the end of a
dish until one get's a signal from the Hotbirds or Astras,
then bolting up and hoping for the best.

OK ..to avoid problems the following must be done...

1. Set the mount absolutely vertical in all directions,
ie perpendicular.

A variation of only 0.5 of degree - perhaps less
than a centimetre to one metre vertically could be
quite enough to throw your large dish offtrack.

Why? Because the offset arm of your motor's dish mount
relies on this exactitude to aim the dish accurately
at a point just a little larger than a Mini's car door
at around 23,500 miles away... It also needs this accuracy
to enable the angled mount to auto-adjust the 'skew' angle
of the LNB(s). (You will already have noticed how the
LNB and dish 'twist' as the motor turns the assemblage).

How? Well, simpler than it might sound! Where your mount
is attached to the wall, usually with four bolts - or perhaps
with a couple of scaffold-type mounts held by bolts,
placing a simple washer under (often just one) corner bolt
will make the whole mount become accurately perpendicular.

..but you must check with a small spirit level, (one with
the level running at right angles to the 'measuring' edge),
that your mount is perfectly perpendicular. The blu-tack
and length of string might be helpful here - although
I've found the level a little easier to use. )


2. Your dish needs to be aligned precisely to True South.
Not magnetic south, but about a degree-plus to the east,
(I think), of where you are. You can get this, on a sunny
day, by the shadow cast by the sun at midday, 12h00 GMT,
using a fence post, a Church Tower, a nearby skyscaper, or
even a gravestone. (Although I'm reliably informed that
using your own headstone is not recommended). )

You'd be surprised at just how accurately you can make this
judgement ..or just use a compass at around 01.8 degrees to
the (east, I think) of where you are.

3. Then, motor (or better USALS) your dish to pick up one
of the sat signals coming from Thor/Intel at 0.8W or more
usually at 1.0W. That, if you like, might become your
reference satellite position. (There's a group of three
FTA channels that seem to have test card signals that,
although not quite as strong as some, nevertheless act
well as alignment channels)..

Why?

True South is the 'highest' point in the sky - and,
from this position, (Thor/Intel is a sneeze to the west),
your dish will be able to aim accurately at every satellite
within your line of sight, from far east to far west...

Quick history:

Imagine that all the satellites are spread in a band
right across the horizon. This 'belt' is named the
'Clarke Belt', after Arthur C. Clarke - the famous
SciFi author who is regarded by many as first positing
the idea of geo-synchronous satellite comms, many years
ago and long before Sputnik first hesitated a tiny bleep!

..and yes, last I heard he is still alive, on the 'net
and may even be reading this Usenet newsgroup, given it's
chartered name!

This continuous belt of satellites, right around the
circumference of the world - above the equator and
following the curvature of the Earth - slowly moves
downward, out of your line of sight and that of your
dish as they slowly 'dip' towards the ground at the far
east and far west extremities. That is why you can't get
the satellites over the Americas and Hawaii - even less
Fiji, New Zealand, Japan, Australia and China. They are
out of sight, around the other side of the world.

Of course this does present a problem for the Flat Earthist,
who may possibly claim it's all a conspiracy anyway, dunno!


Now, a slight variation often done, between (2) and (3). Many
find it easier to sat box 'USALS' the dish motor to Thor/Intel
at 1.0W ... and then physically twitch the dish a little up/down
or a smidgin of a move east/west to get the best signal yowling
from their TV sets - (if you don't have a sat finder or a 700.00gbp
signal set).

After setting the dish bolts, so that the dish is now firmly in
place on the motor arm, one may move the whole assembly, motor and
dish as one unit, back to True South and then bolt the whole lot
up quite tightly ..so that it doesn't fall on it's head at the
first hurricane, or worse, perching sparrow!

OK ..sounds complex, but really it isn't complex at all. It
mostly just requires a simple series of steps - and, above all,
checking at least once if not thrice, that each step has been
taken - /especially/ the one about the perpendicular mount for
the motor and the dish unit - for without that, nothing else
will be in reasonable alignment.

As for Turksat ..(earlier comment made by your 'installer'),
well, at 42.0E it is, for me, easy as I can get up to 57/58.0E.
Lot's of Turksat comes in at c.93pc signal, with a better than
90pc quality. Similarly up to 58.0W at the moment... )

Anyway, enough for the minute! )

What is the name and model number of your latest sat box? Is
it a Fortec Star.. (if so, it should be reasonable). I guess
your dish is a Fortec - as I guess the motor is a Metronics, so
they should be OK. I'm also guessing that the 'F' plugs have
been correctly fettered - if only because signal are clearly
getting through, (when they do)! - and the USALS controls go
through the same bit of central core conductor..

Are you actually in USALS mode - ie, the box is set in that
mode. (It would be a bit strange to start seeing "1.2" which
is a DiSEqC control menu), whilst in USALS - although, not
knowing your box, who knows..!

...and don't lose heart. ) You are very, very close to a well
sorted setup...

...and this month's (or is it next month's) "What Satellite and
Digital TV" is now out ..a /very/ well-worthwhile read, at 3.99gbp.. )

hope helps, at least so far...! )

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

"Pat" <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:54roejF21eeotU1@mid.individual.net...
> Had the satellite man over today. He said I may have a faulty box (Fortec
> Star Beta)
> I can get hotbird and astra 1, no problem. Cannot get turksat or arabsat
> he said I couldnt in the UK. BUT and here is the thing. I store the
> satellites and can flick from one to another OK, but when I search for
> another satellite and go back to hotbird or astra which are stored, it
> wont find them and says no signal, like the dish isnt moving.
>
> Are there any easier boxes to use, Oh and by the way, the dish is up near
> the guttering of the house, when the dish moves it has free range one way
> not not the other as it pushes against the guttering. I pointed this out
> twice and he said its not a problem. Its having a good swing dont get me
> wrong but if I go west to far it hits the guttering and wont go further.
>
> HELP ! Please
>
I have a man coming out Thursday Bill to see if its set correctly.

I am doing a USALS search on hotbird and it only finds 3 channels. when
they load i still get the message INFO POSITIONER SETTING !

I havent a clue what it means neither dod Fortec when i called them today. I
have had to email Saudi to get help,,,,,,watch this space lol

In article <4ebf08b0faadopt@billsimpson.com>,
Bill (Adopt) <adopt@billsimpson.com> wrote:
> In article <5525pmF231aobU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Pat <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote:

> [..]
> > I do have USALS BUT is what you have said dependent on wether or not the
> > dish and motor has been set up correctly?

[..]
> OK ..to avoid problems the following must be done...

> 1. Set the mount absolutely vertical in all directions,
> ie perpendicular.
>
> A variation of only 0.5 of degree - perhaps less
> than a centimetre to one metre vertically could be
> quite enough to throw your large dish offtrack.

Quick addendum, Pat.. )

The motor and it's arm should also be at it's 0.0degree
position, ie central - with the dish mountings and dish
in the same perfect alignment, before setting the whole
to True South, or catching the reference channels at 1.0W.

Your motor mounting notes should say that ..if they don't,
or you've mislaid them, have a look at the Stab USALS
User Guide for the smaller HH90 at on:

http://www.fortecstar.com/Estore/sto...-userguide.pdf

...especially the bit about the alignment of the rotor arm
to the motor and the dish - and the method of installing a
USALS system.

Lots of diagrams and clear, helpful instructions, no matter
what type of motor or USALS sat box you might have. )

You won't need to bother with the DiSEqC pages, except for
interest - just the first three or four pages about USALS.

It needs no more!

Good reading.. )

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

"Bill (Adopt)" <adopt@billsimpson.com> wrote in message
news:4ebf0ec0a6adopt@billsimpson.com...
> In article <4ebf08b0faadopt@billsimpson.com>,
> Bill (Adopt) <adopt@billsimpson.com> wrote:
>> In article <5525pmF231aobU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Pat <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> [..]
>> > I do have USALS BUT is what you have said dependent on wether or not
>> > the
>> > dish and motor has been set up correctly?
>
> [..]
>> OK ..to avoid problems the following must be done...
>
>> 1. Set the mount absolutely vertical in all directions,
>> ie perpendicular.
>>
>> A variation of only 0.5 of degree - perhaps less
>> than a centimetre to one metre vertically could be
>> quite enough to throw your large dish offtrack.
>
> Quick addendum, Pat.. )
>
> The motor and it's arm should also be at it's 0.0degree
> position, ie central - with the dish mountings and dish
> in the same perfect alignment, before setting the whole
> to True South, or catching the reference channels at 1.0W.
>
> Your motor mounting notes should say that ..if they don't,
> or you've mislaid them, have a look at the Stab USALS
> User Guide for the smaller HH90 at on:
>
> http://www.fortecstar.com/Estore/sto...-userguide.pdf
>
> ..especially the bit about the alignment of the rotor arm
> to the motor and the dish - and the method of installing a
> USALS system.
>
> Lots of diagrams and clear, helpful instructions, no matter
> what type of motor or USALS sat box you might have. )
>
> You won't need to bother with the DiSEqC pages, except for
> interest - just the first three or four pages about USALS.
>
> It needs no more!
>
> Good reading.. )
>
> Bill ZFC
>
> --
> Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
> Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

Bill

Tomorrow I am going to take some pictures of the dish installation. I will
then upload them to a website and you can view them
I am sure its set up wrong. No way is it central to the arm.

I will post here when I have done it.

In article <553omuF22e9m5U1@mid.individual.net>,
Pat <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote:

> "Pat" <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:54roejF21eeotU1@mid.individual.net...
> > Had the satellite man over today. He said I may have a faulty box (Fortec
> > Star Beta)

hmm.. just realised this. 'Beta', you say..?
A still to be sorted test box..? hmmmmm!

Perhaps Technomate (or LiDL if available)
might have been a better box option!
Technomate will certainly come to your rescue,
should you finally decide to throw in the
Fortec beta towel.. )

> I have a man coming out Thursday Bill to see if its set correctly.

> I am doing a USALS search on hotbird and it only finds 3 channels. when
> they load i still get the message INFO POSITIONER SETTING !

I'm still guessing that it's either a DiSEqC 1.2 error
and control message ..or:

...that your box is asking you which of the two, DiSEqC
or USALS positioner settings, do you wish to choose.

Look in your menus for something that allows you to
choose, once and for all !!! the USAL settings.. )



> I havent a clue what it means neither dod Fortec when i called them today. I
> have had to email Saudi to get help,,,,,,watch this space lol

...hehehe..! It's all a conspiracy, that's wot it is!
The boxes are revolting agin us ..they're sick of being
attacked with screwdrivers and sledgehammers!

...or else they're just waiting for you to pick a sweet
innocent dish installer to offer up as a sacrifice.. )

Just picked this note up, btw, Pat ..having just posted
a couple of notes (one long) that might be a help to you
...(and to a few others as well)!

Once you're on to Hotbird (or whatever), even if you have
to motor there in DiSEqC, you should still be able to
catch all the channels available on that group of satellites
.... hundreds of them at the last count... )

Look at your box, straight between it's LEDs - and
seriously threaten to pull it fuse! See if that has
any affect.. ;'))

Anyway ..no doubt the saga will continue ..you are close
to having it all sorted )

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 00:44:37 -0000, "Pat" <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk>
wrote:

>The Fortec beta was faulty. I am onto another forum sie where one chap had
>exaclty the same problems as me.he took his back.
>
>I have exchanged the beta for a Fortec (glutton for puishment) Star
>Ultimate. This has a hdd option.
>
>Still no joy.
>
>Just searched MANUALLY Hotbird. I got 3 channels. Then again got 500 then
>11. you get the picture LOL
>
>Its going to maplins !

-----------------------------

On 27 Feb 2007, Walt Davidson wrote:

You seem so clueless about this that I would suggest you either:

1. Engage the services of a professional installer and accept that you
will have to pay the "going rate", or

2. Spend a couple of months reading up the subject in the many
satellite TV magazines that are available from your local stationer.

Otherwise, it's all going to end in tears. Trust me on this.

----------------------------

I hate to say "Told you so" ..... but it's very tempting!

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

"Walt Davidson" <g3nyy@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:f0jpu2ps82nuen24a48bbna0im1t10gp6t@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 00:44:37 -0000, "Pat" <psweeney@riversway.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>The Fortec beta was faulty. I am onto another forum sie where one chap had
>>exaclty the same problems as me.he took his back.
>>
>>I have exchanged the beta for a Fortec (glutton for puishment) Star
>>Ultimate. This has a hdd option.
>>
>>Still no joy.
>>
>>Just searched MANUALLY Hotbird. I got 3 channels. Then again got 500 then
>>11. you get the picture LOL
>>
>>Its going to maplins !
>
> -----------------------------
>
> On 27 Feb 2007, Walt Davidson wrote:
>
> You seem so clueless about this that I would suggest you either:
>
> 1. Engage the services of a professional installer and accept that you
> will have to pay the "going rate", or
>
> 2. Spend a couple of months reading up the subject in the many
> satellite TV magazines that are available from your local stationer.
>
> Otherwise, it's all going to end in tears. Trust me on this.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> I hate to say "Told you so" ..... but it's very tempting!
>
> --
> Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

Well you could but I did get "what I thought" was a pro installer. I also
did read up on it. If the box is faulty perhaps I have done it right and
still cannot get it to work because of the box